Ghostshas taken us back in time for another fantastic flashback episode withIsaac (Brandon Scott Jones)finally telling the story of his long-held beef with Alexander Hamilton (Nat Faxon). In “Alexander Hamilton and the Ruffle Kerfuffle,” we learn how close Isaac was to signing the Declaration of Independence and how Alexander Hamilton ruined his chance to make a mark on history. We also see the return ofElias (Matt Walsh)as he vows not to rest until he’s reaped at least one soul from Woodstone — and if that cliffhanger is anything to go by, he’s certainly got his eyes on Jay (Utkarsh Ambudkar).
To celebrate his big flashback episode, I sat down with Brandon Scott Jones to talk all thingsGhostsSeason 4. During our wide-ranging conversation, Jones revealed a deleted scene from this episode, what it was like to spend so much time in 1776, and his hopes to see Isaac “get hisWest Wingon” in future seasons. He also spoke about his favorite Hamilton song, Isaac’s relationships with Hetty (Rebecca Wisocky) and Alberta (Danielle Pinnock), andwhat’s next for Isaac and Nigel (John Hartman)now that they’ve chosen to be friends. Spilling all the tea, Jones also revealedwhat to expect from the Season 4 finale, the return of Patience (Mary Holland), and which historical figure he has a hilarious beef with.
Isaac Finally Leaves His Mark on History in the Latest Episode of ‘Ghosts’
“Isaac’s little words in history are the most unprovable, innocuous, but identifiable words.”
COLLIDER: To start us off on a fun one, I’m curious if you have a favorite song fromHamilton. I feel like Isaac’s is probably the one where they just all read him to filth.
BRANDON SCOTT JONES: Exactly. Yes. 100%. That’s it. I also do love “Wait for It.” That one so epic. I mean, it’s hard to pick one in that whole show.
Truly, that one’s my favorite, too, actually.
JONES: It’s amazing.
I love the flashback episodes. I think that they’re so much fun. I would say this is probably the biggest one we’ve had so far for Isaac, so what was it like for you to spend so much of this episode actually in 1776? You have such great combative chemistry with Nat Faxon.
JONES: Thank you very much! It’s so fun. It’s really one of my favorites. I think, especially for the ghosts, whenever we get a chance to do a flashback scene, we get to wear a different costume, we get to hold a prop, we get to be living and interacting with people that we normally wouldn’t get a chance to interact with and going to places we couldn’t go. So, it’s always definitely like, “Oh, exciting!” It’s also such a great opportunity for our production designer, [Zoë Sakellaropoulo], to really flex, and she just does such a good job. Our cinematographer, our entire team just did such a great job of making this look like a period piece. It felt epic and new and fun, which was great, and I loved it.
First of all, how cool is it to have an episode of a sitcom where, just casually, Thomas Jefferson and John Jay and Ben Franklin and Sam Adams and Alexander Hamilton are just characters in an episode? I think that that is one of the things that makesGhoststotally special. Then, with Nat specifically, he’s such a good actor. He’s so funny, and he really came down so ready to play. It was just so fun to find that dynamic. It’s so funny, for him to come in four seasons in, this character has such a lore, and it’s such a loaded history in the show. So I think to see him finally come to life and to have it be that was awesome was so great.
I love that. I also really love that by the end of this episode, we find out that they do use Isaac’s words in the Declaration, and not only does it really tease out that last joke for you, but I think it’s really clever commentary to have a gay Founding Father contributing to the Declaration. It’s like, even though history doesn’t remember us, we’ve always been here, and we always will be. I would love to hear your thoughts on Isaac’s lasting impact.
JONES: What you just said is really interesting. At the end of the day, one of my favorite things about this character, whether it’s present in an episode overtly or not, is the concept that he’s somebody who was fighting for a country that maybe… I guess the best way to say this is that we mythologize these Founding Fathers so much, but you’re right: LGBTQ+ people have been around forever, and they will continue to be around forever. The idea that he wasn’t able to fully live as who he was back then, I think, is almost the antithesis of what this country was meant to be founded on if that makes sense. So, the idea that he was contributing to ideas that maybe he felt were necessary in the moment but weren’t things that turned out to be the best for him today, I think it is really interesting. It’s very subversive. So, on the whole, that’s what I think is really, really, really interesting.
On a funny, comical note, of course, Isaac’s little words in history are the most unprovable, innocuous, but identifiable words, “the pursuit of happiness.” He would do that. And I think it is a little loaded to also have a queer character that that’s what he claims, at least, to be the words that he contributed to this Declaration of Independence is “the pursuit of happiness.”
Brandon Scott Jones Reveals a Deleted Scene From This Week’s ‘Ghosts’
“I’m hoping CBS will release the full version of that scene because she’s great. She’s just the best.”
In the present timeline, Jay is really struggling to pay attention, given that he can’t see or hear you, and Sam really is dropping the ball on relaying stuff in this one, so we get that big cliffhanger with Jay and Elias. Can you tease anything about the future of that storyline? I feel like that’s going to come back in a big way.
JONES: I think you’re absolutely right. I think it does come back in a big way. I think even if it feels like we get away from it for a little bit, trust that it is a seed that has been planted and watered. It’s definitely going to come back and, no pun intended, haunt us like that.
It made me so happy to see Beatrice back in this episode, even though she didn’t have any lines. Seeing the two of them together makes it so obvious why Isaac and Hetty became such good friends. I was wondering, was there a version where she did have any lines, and in the present time, can you tease any Isaac and Hetty moments from the rest of the season?
JONES: Yes, it’s one of the tragedies of a 21-and-a-half-minute time limit, but Hillary [Anne Matthews] came back. She was amazing. She was so funny. She had such a great moment. She and Hamilton had a little moment. So, yeah, she definitely did have lines. I’m sad that it wasn’t able to fit in this episode, but I’m hoping CBS will release the full version of that scene because she’s great. She’s just the best.
Isaac and [Beatrice], I consider them to be like a slightly unsuccessful Macbeth and Lady Macbeth. At the dawn of the United States of America, they were two people who maybe felt on the outside, and they were trying their best to get in. I always think that she was his best friend. They were absolutely partners in crime. Even if it was a fraught marriage with some difficulties, I think that they were both excited to be around when that was happening. They could feel something big. So yeah, to draw the connection between her and Hetty, I think that’s another thing. Hetty and Isaac are always going to have some sort of bond as the two people who have the most status in the house, and they’re also the goofiest. So, even if there aren’t necessarily specific storylines that come up, Isaac and Hetty are going to be next to each other in every group scene and share the same point of view. So, anytime I get a chance to do anything with Rebecca Wisocky is my favorite. So, I’m looking forward to, especially in the upcoming seasons, more Isaac and Hetty trying to hold on to their status in the house.
Last week, we got the reunion of Pony and Bangs when Isaac and Alberta decided to move in together. Are there any more fun shenanigans for those two coming up?
JONES: That’s the same thing. They have such bestie energy, don’t they? They’re so basically obsessed with drama. They want it to happen. So I think, yes, there’s so much that happens in the house, and you’ll definitely see Isaac and Alberta enjoying it together, which I think is the most fun. Alberta has a really cool storyline coming up where her descendant comes back and is getting married, and Alberta tries to insert herself in making sure that this is the right decision for her descendant. Ashley Kelley plays the descendant from last season, and so that’s a very exciting one as well. So yeah, anytime Pony and Bangs get together, we have the most fun.
Excellent. I’m very excited to hear about that storyline.
A Hot New Bombshell Is About to Enter the Villa on ‘Ghosts’
“So when we have a new ghost show up that is a hot dude, I think it’ll be pretty fun.”
I also really love that both Hetty and Trevor, and Isaac and Nigel, are making deliberate choices to be friends again after their breakups. Can you tease anything about the future of Isaac’s relationship with Nigel?
JONES: We’re going to be seeing Nigel again very, very shortly. I think what’s interesting is that this is the first time we’re going to see them as friends now be tested in terms of, like, maybe another ghost coming by that they both are very fascinated by and interested in, and I think that could cause a little bit of a rift. But hopefully, if things are trending in the right direction, they’ll be able to work past it. It was fun to get a chance to play a new color to the relationship as ghosts, especially with John Hartman as Nigel. It was really fun to just see, like, “Okay, they’re not on firm footing yet, but they are making the attempts to try and be as cordial and as friendly as possible.” And that doesn’t come without its complications. So when we have a new ghost show up that is a hot dude, I think it’ll be pretty fun.
That’s so exciting. I cannot wait.
JONES: I think it’s a really good episode. I want to give you one other tidbit, but I’m so afraid it’s going to be spoilery. There’s a real connection with who that ghost is that I think makes that really, really, really interesting.
Oh, I’m so excited! Speaking of guest stars, this episode had so many fun guest stars. Do you have any dream guest stars that you’d like to see on the show?
JONES: Oh my goodness, dream guest stars. My North Star as an actor is Julia Louis-Dreyfus, and so if I could ever be anywhere near her presence, even if she’s on a Zoom call in the show, I would be over the moon. She’s definitely somebody I’ve been so deeply inspired by. We just had the SNL reunion and so forth, but it was so fun to watch these people that I grew up loving and thinking were amazing, like Molly Shannon and Ana Gasteyer and Cheri Oteri and Maya Rudolph and Kristen Wiig. There are all these comedians that just bring me so much joy—Martin Short, Steve Martin. Those types of people I would be just over the moon to have. So, there’s a large pool, but it’s one of those things where it’s almost like such huge dreams. I think it’d be great.
We’re manifesting!
JONES: Also, I feel like Jason Alexander would be a great John Adams. I’m just gonna throw that out there.
That would be great. I spoke to Rose [McIver] last week, and she told me that the finale is jam-packed. Is there anything you can tease about the finale? Will we see Patience again? Anything like that?
JONES: Yes. I’m gonna I’m going to give it to you. We will see Patience again. I think it’s in the finale, but I know that she comes in and she wreaks havoc right towards the end of the season. I will say that maybe a seed that was planted in today’s episode comes back to, again, haunt us. So, it is a jam-packed season finale we are marching towards. It’s going to be tough, but a lot of things convalesce. It’s wild. It’ll be something.
‘Ghosts’ Needs To Let Isaac Get His ‘West Wing’ On
“I think, by the rules of America, he probably is due to run again.”
Amazing! I’m so excited. So, with the double renewal, which, by the way, congratulations, I’m so happy you guys are coming back for two more seasons, with that in mind, what’s on your wishlist for Isaac? We got to see him let his hair down. What are your goals for those two seasons?
JONES: I think that there’s still more to unpack with this Hamilton stuff. I love when he’s trying to course-correct, and he goes a little too hard. So, any time that he feels like he can make a difference, I’d love to see him really try to become the leader, the politician, the soldier that he never was. I think that could be really fun. Then, he’s proven himself to be an unreliable narrator and a little bit of a history revisionist, and I’d love to see him maybe get called out on some of that stuff. I think that could be pretty cool. Then, one of the fantasies that I have is, early in Season 1, I don’t know if you remember this, but he ran for president of the house, and it’s been four years. So I think, by the rules of America, he probably is due to run again. I’d love to see him, maybe next season, get hisWest Wingon and try to really campaign for ghost president.
That would be so much fun. I love that. To go out on a fun one here, in terms of a low-stakes beef, who from history wouldyouhave a rivalry with?
JONES: Oh, that’s such a good question! You know, this is going to be insane. A friend of mine once sent me a screenshot—I don’t think it’s on there anymore, but I swear to god, I had it at some point—that my high school has a Wikipedia page and an alumni list, and there were only two actors that were listed on that alumni page, and it was me and John Wilkes Booth.
That is such a good choice.
JONES: So obviously, I’m frustrated at Mr. John Wilkes Booth for the actions that he took in assassinating one of our greatest presidents, but at the same time, I think I would have beef with who’s going to be the more famous actor. Talk about the ultimate pettiness!
you’re able to watch “Alexander Hamilton and the Ruffle Kerfuffle” on Paramount+, along with previous episodes ofGhosts. New episodes air every Thursday on CBS at 8:30 PM ET.
