From co-directorsLouis BlackandKaren Bernsteinand airing on PBS,American Masters: Richard Linklater – dream is destinyis an unconventional and in-depth look at the fiercely independent style of filmmaking that emerged out of Austin, Texas in the late 1980s and 1990s, and the role thatRichard Linklaterplayed in it, as his career evolved. It features never-before-seen archival footage, early journal writings and new interviews with the writer/director/producer, along with some of the actors he’s worked with, includingMatthew McConaughey,Patricia Arquette,Ethan HawkeandJack Black.
During this interview with Collider, filmmakers Louis Black and Karen Bernstein talked about how this documentary came about, why they felt the legacy of Richard Linklater was worth exploring, why he doesn’t get the recognition he deserves, as a filmmaker, how his love of humanity comes through all of his films, what he’s like on set, the process of editing so many hours of footage and interviews, and what it was like to get Linklater’s feedback on the finished film.
Collider: How did this documentary come about? What was it that inspired you to want to delve into Richard Linklater, as a filmmaker?
KAREN BERNSTEIN: I had worked atAmerican Mastersfor years, in the ‘90s, so when I go to a new place, I look around and think about the people I would be most interested in pitching toAmerican Masters, as a documentary biography. When I originally started pitching, in early 2001, the older leadership ofAmerican Mastersdidn’t really look at this as having great potential because Richard Linklater was just too new. The legacy hadn’t really bloomed, as yet. But I kept the fire burning and I remember talking to Rick about it, and he had his trademark modest reaction to it. And then, I started talking to Louis [Black] about it because I thought this was a way of bringing a whole history of arts in Austin into the fold, to talk about that accessibility and the collaborative nature of Austin. That was in 2014, and it was great timing because Rick was doing what becomeEverybody Wants Some, which is sort of the sequel toDazed and Confused. I thought there was a lot of potential there, thematically, and Louis agreed, so we just started filming.
LOUIS BLACK: I’ve produced films, but this is the first one that I’ve co-directed. It’s really interesting how many discussions we actually had about that. When you produce a film, somebody else is making it, but we were making this. Part of it was about, how much do we include and how much do we leave out, because there’s so much, but I thought it ended up working out okay. So much of it ended up coming from Rick, who decided to stay afterSlacker. Tobe Hooper didThe Texas Chainsaw Massacreand went to L.A. Eagle Pennell went to L.A. Robert Rodriguez didEl Mariachiand went to L.A., but then came back. But, Rick stayed.
You’ve said that when you asked him about doing this, he didn’t say no, but that’s not necessarily saying yes either.
BLACK: We were being a little bit coy there. Rick doesn’t do anything that he doesn’t want to do, and he loves the idea that he never said yes. In Austin, you’ve got Terry Malick and you’ve got Rick, and they don’t like to talk about themselves. Rick does more publicity than Terry, and Terry’s not a recluse, but he really wants it to be about the movie.
BERNSTEIN: Especially by his own admission, his personal life is not really that interesting.
BLACK: Rick really wants to make movies. Some people make movies because they want to be powerful or get laid. They want that ride. Rick wants to make movies. He really wants to make movies. And his films seem so autobiographical because they seem personal, but that’s part of his art.
BERNSTEIN: One of the things I’ve always admired about Rick is that he could be a great documentary filmmaker because there is that love of “real people” and he brings that to each of his films. It may not necessarily be about him, but it’s about being a human, and that love of humanity comes through in all of his films. I think he really genuinely loves aspects of being human.
Why do you think Richard Linklater doesn’t get the recognition that he deserves, as a filmmaker?
BLACK: I think some of it is because of Austin. He’s not in L.A. or New York, so he doesn’t run in those circles. I think if he was less of a filmmaker, he would get more recognition. The fact is that he does so many things, and does them so remarkably well. If you look at Kevin Smith – and personally, I like Kevin a lot – he has a ton of books written about him because he’s easy to write about. With a lot of filmmakers, you know what you’re going to get. If I went into a theater and sawLast Flag Flying, I would not guess it was Rick. Knowing it’s Rick, you relish so much of it, but it’s not a standard Rick film, in any way. It’s amazing! He’s one of my favorite filmmakers. I used to say thatDazed and Confusedwas almost as good asAmerican Graffiti, but now I thinkAmerican Graffitiis artificial and not even close.Dazedwas a masterpiece.
What’s it like to actually get to see him on set, doing his thing?
BLACK: I think the most surprising thing is how low-key he is. He knows what he wants and he’s going to get it, but he listens to everybody. He wants to hear everybody’s ideas, and then he picks the best ones. He knows what he’s going after. Rick always rehearses, and when he’s on the set, it’s collaborative, but he’s clearly the author. There’s no question. It’s a group effort, but there’s one guy creating the film.
BERNSTEIN: We spent so much time on the set ofEverybody Wants Some!!and saw the evolution from script reading, all the way through. It was really fantastic to watch. One of the things that everybody said was that the actual filming was a real smooth transition. There wasn’t a point at which Rick said, “Action!” They just flowed into the filming, which was remarkable to watch. The other thing that really struck me about watching Rick on set is that he has that baseball player’s level of intensity. He is focused on the game. It was very clear to me that I was not to ask him to even pass the sugar. Maybe he’ll take a break and say hello to you, but you know that you’re not to ask him a question when he’s in the midst of filming.
With so many hours of footage, how did you end up with this specific film?
BLACK: There was a lot of discussion.
BERNSTEIN: And we have a wonderful editor, Nevie Owens, who I’ve worked with a lot. She has this great ability to listen to all of the different teams and working with you to organize the footage. We think in act structure, only because it’s an interesting theatrical model to use, but oftentimes, we’d dispense of that pretty quickly. We’d start there, and then work from there. You have to be willing to let go of your babies. The things that we had thought were just amazing, we ended up having to let go off, but it makes for a stronger film.
BLACK: I’d never directed before. When you start, 10% of the film works and 90% doesn’t, and that’s actually okay. But towards the end, 90% works and 10% doesn’t, and all you do is focus on that 10% that doesn’t. You think it’s a disaster. It was a real process. It was collaborative and there was a lot of discussion, and Nevie was crucial.
What was it like to show this to Richard Linklater?
BERNSTEIN: He watched it before we went to Sundance. He emailed us at two in the morning, and I just happened to be up because I was doing something. I got this very short email from Rick that said, “Can I watch the film now?” It was his window to watch the film. I was like, “What do I do? What do I say?” So, I emailed Louis, who was up because he’s a night owl, and he said, “Go ahead and send it to him.” I sent him the link and it was a totally sleepless morning because I was waiting to hear. And he wrote back, “Yeah, it’s good,” like typical Rick.
BLACK: He had two minor changes. I just wanted to get the film right. I never worried what Rick would think about it, which I find amazing. I don’t believe it when I say it, but it’s true. It had to work for me and for us. I thought that if I thought it was good, he would be okay with it, but I should have worried more. And he was very low-key about it. He was like, “Yeah, it’s not too embarrassing.” And then, he screened it for the actors onLast Flag Flyingand he went to Sundance with us, so there were indications [that he liked it].
BERNSTEIN: It’s a tricky balance, whenever you do a documentary biography with somebody who’s alive. They don’t have final cut because they’re not a producer on it, but they’re not going to show up for any of your press events, if you screw them. We wanted to just have it be something that talked about the humanity of being a filmmaker, at this time.
American Masters: Richard Linklater - dream is destinypremieres on PBS on September 1st, and will be available to stream athttp://www.pbs.org/wnet/americanmasters/and PBS OTT apps.
