When executive producerMarc Guggenheimstarted working on Netflix’sTrollhuntersalmost a decade ago, he had no idea where it would lead. Back then it was a single animated television series based on a story byGuillermo del Toro, but it would soon become much more. From a single series, about an average suburban kid tasked with defending the world from ancient evil, would spin an entire trilogy of shows.3Below, a sci-fi take on the material, would follow. And now,Wizards, the final series, is about to launch. (You canread our review here.)
So we were thrilled to get a chance to chat with Guggenheim about his history with the project, how it was decided to extend the single series into a trilogy, and what (if anything) comes next for the merry band of Trollhunters, their intergalactic pals, and those timeless warlocks.
COLLIDER: Feels like a long journey withTrollhunters. I’m sure it feels a lot longer for you.
MARC GUGGENHEIM: You know, it’s weird. I have been working in this universe since the first season ofArrow, so nine years ago. And yeah, it’s very surreal actually, watching sort of two franchise in the same year. It just adds to the weirdness of 2020.
Because you have to find a new job, Marc.
GUGGENHEIM: I do. Well, my wife was asking me the other day, she was like, “So when are you going to develop some new television?” Because I’ve been working in features lately quite a bit. And I’m like, “I don’t know. I’m kind of enjoying not having a script to do every eight days.” This is not so bad, but yeah.
I wanted to go back to the very beginning, because this whole project has a really interesting backstory of Guillermo writing a book for Disney, which he was going to turn into a feature when he had that imprint under Dick Cook. Can you talk about how it went from an animated feature to a TV show with DreamWorks and how you got involved in that whole process?
GUGGENHEIM: Yeah, they’re all actually all related. So basically, what happened was, Guillermo sort of had his overall deal with DreamWorks. He had written the first half of a screenplay forTrollhunters. And then another writer, whose name unfortunately escapes me [editor’s note: it wasThomas Wheeler], was hired to write the second half, basically finish the script. And the result was kind of what you would expect, which is, it felt a little Frankenstein-y, you know? It also was, I think, challenged by the fact that the world that Guillermo had created in the book was so expansive and packed with so much backstory and mythology and characters, that to get all that into a 90-minute film was a real challenge.
I came in and I pulled up a lot of track and I lost some characters and simplified some other things, and also made it one cohesive film, as opposed to it feeling like two half-scripts stitched together.
And I was about to start my second draft when I was asked to pitch what we were doing to Netflix, not to really make it a television show, but rather Netflix had just made this big deal with DreamWorks and wanted to just have a better sense as to what DreamWorks had going on.
I did the pitch and the word came back that Netflix really, really wanted to buy it as a television show. And although this was not something that we were really thinking about, the moment they said “television show,” we all breathed a collective sigh of relief. Because like I said, the big challenge of doing the feature film was “how do you tell all that story in 90 minutes?” And the great, wonderful, very simple answer is “don’t limit yourself to 90 minutes.”
Of course!
GUGGENHEIM: And that’s how we came to Netflix and that’s how we made a series. And then about a year, I think a year into doingTrollhuntersthe series, Jeffrey Katzenberg, who was head of DreamWorks at the time, came to Guillermo and asked if he could expand out the world into other shows. And Guillermo pitched him back his idea of3BelowandWizards, and we just kept going. And now nine years later here we are. So that’s very exciting, and it’s been a great, wonderful journey.
How closely did the subsequent shows resemble what you guys had pitched to Jeffery?
GUGGENHEIM: That’s a good question. Bear in mind, this is definitely oh-so-long ago, so this is my terrible recollection, but my feeling is that3Belowwas very, very similar to the original conceit.
Obviously, all these things have grown and developed and evolved over the years. But I would say, I think3Belowprobably was the most faithful.Wizardsprobably went through the most changes just in terms of where to pick up the concept. Obviously, Douxie and his relationship with Merlin was always at the core of what we knewWizardswould be. But as we developed it, the idea of going back to the medieval period, going back and actually seeing that original relationship between Douxie and Merlin, seeing all the mythology that had been established inTrollhunters, but only referred to, not actually dramatized. Those ideas came relatively later in the process.
Part of the fun of the new show is seeing people transform or seeing an earlier version of certain characters. Was that always the appeal to you guys of the time travel element?
GUGGENHEIM: I think to a certain extent that was definitely part of the fun. Part of the fun is seeing these characters from a different point of view. But I think the other thing that I think was satisfying and alluring to us, is the idea that we’d been hearing about these events – The Battle of Killahead Bridge, Day of the Deliverer, the formation of the Trollhunter amulet. We’ve heard about these things, in some cases, from the very first episode ofTrollhunters. But it’s very satisfying, I think, for an audience to actually get a chance to see these things.
Without us doing a proper prequel, this is the closest we could get to dramatizing and depicting these seminal events in this universe. And the chance to do that was both enticing and terrifying. And it’s terrifying because, basically, when you’re doing something like actually showing the Battle of Killahead Bridge, actually showing the invention of the Trollhunter amulet, you’re competing with the audience’s version that they’ve had in their head ever since you introduced these concepts several years ago.
In some ways it’s almost folly to try, but I think one of the many things that’s so great about working with Guillermo is that you take a lot more risks with the material than you ever would normally do if you were if you were in your right mind.
Well, I was going to ask about the episode count, because the shows have gotten shorter as they’ve gone on and without spoiling anything, this story is not totally resolved at the end. Can you talk about the decision to only do 10 and where that came from? Is there the possibility of another show or a TV movie?
GUGGENHEIM: The DreamWorks gods will smite me down if I were to reveal anything. So, the only thing I really can say is that there are plans. I can’t always talk about what the plan is. But I think if and when I’m ever able to talk about it, I think the episode count and everything else, I could actually properly answer your question. But right now, I got to plead the fifth on all of those.
This is the most visually incredible season yet. Was it fortuitous that the technology caught up with the storytelling? And could have even done something like this with the technology you had back whenTrollhuntersstarted?
GUGGENHEIM: Nowe actually couldn’t. In fact, I’ll give you a great example. I think it was episode 3-26. I’m probably wrong on the numbers. We had depicted what I’ll call an abstract version of the battle of Killahead Bridge inTrollhunters. This is now several years ago. And I say abstract because basically what we did was a, still 3-D image that Merlin walks the kids through. And that’s because that was the most we could accomplish, given our budget and the state of technology at the time. But here inWizards, now several years removed, we show you the entire Battle of Killahead Bridge in all of its glory. It really does show you just how far the technology has come.
But I will say for all three shows, we’ve had the same three vendors, and the same animators for the most part, and a lot of the same artists. And what I think is pretty remarkable is that yes, while there is a leap forward in terms of each show, from the technological side of things, there’s also a leap upward from an artistic perspective. There are sequences and images inWizardsthat look a million times better than were inTrollhunters, not just because of technology, but because all the artists have raised their game. And they’ve raised their game with each show, so that we are doing things inWizardsthat we … I wouldn’t say that we couldn’t have done inTrollhunters, but we elected not to do, because our whole attitude is unless this can look amazing, there’s no point in doing it.
Was it hard to figure out the ratio of returning characters to the new characters?
GUGGENHEIM: Absolutely. It always is because, my personal philosophy has always been that any spin-off, it doesn’t have to be in this universe, it could be in any franchise, any spinoff should properly stand on its own feet, and that it shouldn’t rely on too many returning characters.
WithWizards, because it’s the end of a trilogy, the calculus is slightly adjusted in the sense that you still want there to be some new characters and new things for the audience. But because you’re closing out a trilogy and you’re closing out a storyline, you want to see some characters from the previous two shows because this is your last opportunity, right?
GUGGENHEIM: This is the last stop on the highway. It is a tricky balance. It’s also a tricky balance in so far as you know you’ve got 10 episodes that translates to a certain amount of screen time, and there’s only so many characters who can be competing for that screen time.
These are all really interesting problems. At the same time, I’m a very big believer that you’re able to talk about all this and you could debate it. But at the end of the day, you have to just go with your gut and do what services the story the best. The story is really the sword that cuts the Gordian knot of how much is too little and how much is too much. And that’s what we ended up doing here.
You’ve been involved in some things with some pretty rabid fanbases, but has the response toTrollhuntersand the whole universe surprised you over the years?
GUGGENHEIM: I don’t know if I would say it has surprised me. It has been incredibly rewarding. I think one of the great things about theTrollhuntersfanbase or fandom is how creative they are. The fan art that people post to Twitter and Instagram has just blown us away. There’s actually an artist who worked onWizardsnamed Kenny who came to us because we saw her fan art and absolutely loved it. I thought it was fantastic. I have to say, I have dealt with a bunch of different fandoms, and every fandom expresses their enjoyment for the property in a different way. I just love the fact that fan art has been such a driving force behind this fandom.
And if you go, if one were allowed to go, I should say, to the DreamWorks offices, where we used to produce the shows, you would see that all the walls are lined with the fan art. And it’s just great, because it has drawn fans of all ages. So we have art from very young kids, up to art by adults, professional or quasi-professional artists. And it’s just really, really nice.
